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OSS Hacker, Developer Advocate and Entrepreneur at Codename One
About
Software developer with ~30 years of professional experience in a multitude of platforms/languages. JavaOne rockstar/highly rated speaker, author, blogger and open source hacker. Shai has extensive experience in the full stack of backend, desktop and mobile. This includes going all the way into the internals of VM implementation, debuggers etc. Shai started working with Java in 96 (the first public beta) and later on moved to VM porting/authoring/internals and development tools. Shai is the co-founder of Codename One, an Open Source project allowing Java developers to build native applications for all mobile platforms in Java. He's the coauthor of the open source LWUIT project from Sun Microsystems and has developed/worked on countless other projects both open source and closed source. Shai is also a developer advocate at Lightrun.
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Software Integration
Seamless communication — that, among other consequential advantages, is the ultimate goal when integrating your software. And today, integrating modern software means fusing various applications and/or systems — many times across distributed environments — with the common goal of unifying isolated data. This effort often signifies the transition of legacy applications to cloud-based systems and messaging infrastructure via microservices and REST APIs.So what's next? Where is the path to seamless communication and nuanced architecture taking us? Dive into our 2023 Software Integration Trend Report and fill the gaps among modern integration practices by exploring trends in APIs, microservices, and cloud-based systems and migrations. You have to integrate to innovate!
Comments
Jul 10, 2023 · Shai Almog
This was raised in the manifold slack and it isn't as simple as one might think since null is deeply ingrained in Java.
I'm guessing one can use the expression language to write a slightly shorter syntax than the optional syntax but I'm not sure how applicable it would be.
Jul 09, 2023 · Shai Almog
The specific GraphQL docs are pretty lacking. Unfortunately, I don't have too much experience with GraphQL so I couldn't do their implementation justice. There's the sample app here: https://github.com/manifold-systems/manifold-sample-graphql-app/
But I would suggest asking in the slack channel as Scott is pretty responsive to queries there.
Jul 08, 2023 · Shai Almog
The context is a case where the interviewer does a bad job. Why would using any of these undermine your job?
Won't they be available when you do your job?
Jun 22, 2023 · Shai Almog
For most cases where we have a natural value for an object that isn't null we should assign it when creating the variable. This can be by making a field final and requiring the value in the constructor etc.
But let's look at the cases where there's no such "natural" non-null object. If we still choose to make the object non-null then we allocate a "dummy" object to serve as a placeholder just so we can discard it later.
The cost in performance depends on what the compiler will translate your non-null code to. In some cases this is translated to null but usually this isn't the case. Currently Optional has noticeable (albeit small) overhead. But other compile time options might not be able to use null in all the same cases. Non-null is an abstraction over null and abstractions tend to leak in unpredictable ways.
Jun 21, 2023 · Shai Almog
I meant Kotlins approach etc.
Jun 21, 2023 · Shai Almog
Not really because they didn't publish the final syntax but as far as we know it will only be a marker tag indicating that it will be non-null. As far as I understood enforcement at the compiler level won't be deep since they can't change libraries etc. Previously they had syntax that denoted this in the class level indicating that an object lacks "identity" which is a synonym to pointer.
Jun 21, 2023 · Shai Almog
Notice I mentioned that Valhalla will add a not-null marker which is important for memory layout. Yes, that should go into the language but it's a different thing from the systems used by other languages.
Jun 20, 2023 · Shai Almog
That's a great point. This indeed drew some inspiration for a trend of that time called "design by contract". That mostly focused on asserts but the idea was to map all the various ways the object can fail for bad input.
This is also very powerful in combination with JavaDoc.
Apr 13, 2023 · Shai Almog
Right, I meant to say code rot.
Mar 07, 2023 · Shai Almog
Unfortunately the links in the post were removed during editing. The original is here: https://debugagent.com/open-source-maintenance-is-community-organizing
Feb 22, 2023 · Shai Almog
Yes. I did mention the events but didn't want to get into the nuances of the implementation. Since it's relatively young, I'm not sure if it will be a decent replacement to Kafka but it is a very interesting project.
Oct 05, 2022 · Shai Almog
That's why I mentioned Lombok which is still applicable. Records are improving though.
I think the lambda implementation was a bit broken which is the one problem with checked exceptions. I blame the lambda, not the exceptions.
I agree, a lot of complexity was added but newer languages are even more complex and don't have the same level of functionality. With the exception of JVM languages.
Oct 04, 2022 · Shai Almog
I think everyone defines this a bit differently. There's also the quiet firing where bosses assign bad tasks and create an unpleasant work environment.
I picked the more widely understood version of quiet quitting: doing exactly what the job description says. No more. No less. It's a legitimate thing. What's interesting is that it's a change for a lot of people. Why would people change that behavior?
Because the dime dropped for a lot of them. They understand their employer will dump them in a heartbeat, regardless of how hard they work. No reason to go the extra mile. That's OK when talking about overtime. It's not so great if you don't document your code because well documented code isn't benchmarked in your quarterly reviews.
Sep 30, 2022 · Shai Almog
Great quote!
A boss should never demand loyalty. It's something that's earned.
Mar 25, 2022 · Alex Omeyer
I'm not sure if Lightrun fits into the "fight technical debt" but debugging production is pretty much a universal "fixer" problem. I think our plugin is probably one of the coolest around (in my not so subjective opinion): https://lightrun.com/
Mar 01, 2022 · Reza Rahman
Great seeing your talks there!
Generally virtual conferences have a problem of audience participation. I noticed FOSDEM was MUCH better than the median cookie cutter conference in terms of participation. Not sure if it was due to the foojay room we were in or the conference itself though.
Jan 18, 2022 · Vladyslav Lubenskyi
It took well over a month of work. The main work was around the deployment of the native libraries and a lot went into the media code so it would use CEF instead of the built-in APIs of FX. That required recompiling CEF for every platform which took a lot of effort. Steve Hannah did most of the work there. I can connect you to him if you're interested. You can see the stuff he did in our repo: https://github.com/codenameone/CodenameOne/
Jan 18, 2022 · Vladyslav Lubenskyi
Did you two coordinate this?
https://dzone.com/articles/jxbrowser-and-javafx-webview
We use JCEF but played with JxBrowser in the past. It seems like an excellent solution. Since we're an open source project we picked CEF but it was a pretty challenging process.
Jan 18, 2022 · Vladimir Ikryanov
It was an uphill battle too. We had to compile our own version of CEF because the default version doesn't include support for 264 playback. That took a lot of time and pain.
But the end result is a modern/consistent browser over which we have more control regardless of the underlying JDK. So it paid off. Removing the FX dependency is a huge advantage.
Jan 15, 2022 · Vladimir Ikryanov
We chose to go with JCEF which is used by Intellij as well.
Jan 03, 2022 · Bertrand Florat
I very much agree with the UUID usage in DBs but some people don't: https://github.com/jhipster/generator-jhipster/issues/3060
To be fair, they are correct. There is a performance impact. I think it's something most of us can live with.
Dec 02, 2021 · Shai Almog
Exactly!
We need to work with whoever we hire. The first impression goes both ways. I was literally in a situation where a person I hired was later an employee in a company that hired me.
This extends to coding. When we're ripping out our hair trying to figure out a bug I'd rather have a person I can talk to and understand. Team cohesion is huge.
Nov 18, 2021 · Ogundiran Ayobami
The common term is time travel debugging. E.g. https://www.replay.io/
Aug 17, 2021 · Jasper Sprengers
When I saw the title my first thought was how some code feels like the ending of 2001 space odyssey... Grandiose and significant meaning but really hard to interpret for anyone other than the creator.
I like to think of programming more as a team sport. Even when coding alone it's about dividing hard tasks into smaller simpler tasks and creating order out of chaos.
Mar 25, 2021 · danieloh30
Here's a couple more... Lightrun which effectively re-invents what it means to debug and handle production issues. Codename One which you should try if you want to build mobile apps in Java. It's open source, easier than Android and works everywhere.
Mar 08, 2021 · Harry Stone
I picked a somewhat different approach to the same problem in my article here. I think cross platform solutions should be picked by programming language of choice. Also flutter, Qt, Codename One etc. are often mislabeled within the "native/hybrid" categorization. You need a deeper split.
May 27, 2020 · Tara Simpson
Do you work for free?
Why do you expect professional developers who build tools to do what you don't?
If you can't spend on your craft then you're a hobbyist not a professional. When there's a better free product then I use it (e.g. Linux) but when the product delivers a lot of value over a free product then I make the calculation of my time that's saved. My time isn't free.
FYI If you mean "open source" then the core of webstorm is open source.
BTW Visual Studio Code also has a commercial portion that isn't "free"...
Apr 16, 2020 · Stefan Thorpe
These prices are ridiculously high when compared to the smaller providers such as Linode and Digital Ocean. From my benchmarks both Linode and DO are much faster as well... There's very little reason to pick a large provider here beyond the initial free quota they provide.
E.g. a similar node on Linode would cost literally half the price!
May 14, 2019 · John Demian
Your proof that serverless is cheap comes from a company that sells serveless. It's in fact FAR more expensive than simple IaaS when the latter is used correctly (which it often isn't). A huge culprit is hidden costs. E.g. our S3 cost is very low but the traffic to that storage is 20,000% more expensive. One bug or mistake can skyrocket your costs overnight, this can't happen in IaaS.
Mar 13, 2019 · Justin Mancinelli
We support Swift in libraries but can't support it directly since ARC conflicts with GC. Last I checked Kotlin Native used ARC instead of a GC which means it would suffer from portability issues and memory leaks. Debugging these things in the native toolchains would probably negate any time saving you gained by using a cross platform tool.
UX is relative to the skill of the developer/designer. E.g. we replicated the UI of Uber pretty much pixel perfect and it's not too hard. We support features such as CSS, standardized GUI builder and are the only ones that work on Windows/Linux etc. Those would be really hard for Kotlin Native to catch up with due to their approach. It would mean redoing this for every single platform which is something Xamarin with years of work/traction still has issues with. The same is true for react native.
Our Kotlin support is a function of community demand. Articles like this that ignore our work contribute to that. If Kotlin users don't use Codename One we won't get bugs related to it and won't be able to improve the project. The fact we only support a subset of Java is crucial, our Android apps are smaller than many native Android apps. Our iOS apps clock under 3mb for small apps. That's crucial. Other WORA solution start at the 50mb mark.
Mar 13, 2019 · Justin Mancinelli
FYI Codename One supports Kotlin & Java and is more mature than cross platform Kotlin.
Aug 24, 2018 · Andre Lee-Moye
Check out the price list on AWS for even simple things like S3. Most of these can be covered with a $5 linode/digital ocean host for far less. There is a theoretical scale issue when you compare a single host vs. a cloud service but the point where you reach that level of scale is well beyond what most startups will see. Create a hello world spring boot server that accepts file uploads/downloads and measure its throughput using any load tool. Then check out how much it would cost to provide that throughput in S3. A $5 server can deliver thousands of dollars worth. Don't get me started on cloud SQL etc.
In fact we use S3 due to historic reasons, it's not as globally reliable as you would expect so that's not a huge benefit (people get connection issues occasionally while our actual servers are reachable). The price tag isn't big enough to warrant migration off of S3 but it's much higher than just hosting our own file server.
Just google costs for any of these providers and you'd find a shitload of people complaining about sudden multy thousand dollar bills for no reason (or just stupid mistake). This doesn't happen with simple servers.
Big companies like coca cola waste a huge amount of money on building their own data centers. Using a service will save them a lot because they are wasteful to begin with.
Aug 24, 2018 · Andre Lee-Moye
"Serverless" is just PaaS a la carte. It's more expensive than a regular server. Especially at scale. You can't make serious breaking changes because there's no server abstraction. A $5 month VPS is easier, more scalable and cheaper than any "serverless" deployment.
Aug 24, 2018 · DZone_karap
Nicely put. We're an open source company that sells our product through SaaS. I find that our customers have created an equivalency between free and open source. I think open source business model is a bit of an oxymoron. Open source is a thing you use to "sell to developers". Business is something you do for management.
May 29, 2018 · Arran Glen
FYI if you find Flutter interesting check out Codename One which uses similar principals but works with Java/Kotlin instead of Dart.
Apr 23, 2018 · Shai Almog
So you spam this article and ask people to signup for more spam? Right now the course with full source code is 500USD. Do you go lower than that?
Mar 20, 2018 · Nyma Malik
I think you should compare react native to Kotlin Native or Kotlin + Codename One.
Mar 16, 2018 · Mohamed Labouardy
FYI All of the 4 things you mentioned at the bottom of the article as downsides of flutter don't exist in Codename One plus a lot of other advantages...
Feb 09, 2018 · Shai Almog
Thanks!
I plan to write something that goes more into the technical bits and bytes.
FYI I created a 5 hour module that goes over all of the steps and includes the full source code here.
Feb 08, 2018 · Brian Fernandes
I work with all 3 IDE's since we produce plugins for all of them. Eclipse improved recently but it still lacks some capabilities e.g. the debugger in IntelliJ renders values of variables next to the line where they are mentioned... Eclipse has some power but it's very "opinionated" this isn't necessarilly bad but it makes it harder for beginners.
Jan 04, 2018 · Malith Jayasinghe
Well researched and interesting read. Thank you!
Oct 12, 2017 · James Richard
There is a huge difference between placing a small snippet of native code and maintaing 2-5 separate code bases with 20x the total volume of code. That native code is usually a black box that can be implemented once. Native code is something that pushes the total cost over lifetime of the application much higher.
Oct 12, 2017 · James Richard
That's inaccurate. E.g. in our case we support native interfaces so you can just call native code and embed native OS widgets in the app so there are no inherent limitations. You still keep the portability of everything else. We also provide assitance in this process if you aren't familiar with native.
Oct 11, 2017 · James Richard
Thanks for mentioning Codename One. I agree that our default themes are a serious achilese heel and we are working on improving them to a competitive level. Notice you can still build goregous apps you just need to do more theming work to begin.
Oct 09, 2017 · Arran Glen
You mean rival in overpriced junk?
There are better phones from Xiomi and other Chinese manufacturers for literally half the price.
Sep 25, 2017 · Dmitry Budko
I very much agree, we moved our servers from AWS to DO and saved a bundle. Their service is far superior to Amazon too. However, we later moved to Linode and got even better performance for literally half the price!
Jul 14, 2017 · Sarah Davis
Another option is to upgrade your VPS. I've setup MySQL and Spring Boot using linode for our online course. 5USD for a 1gb VPS running Linux is a pretty sweet deal.
Apr 06, 2017 · Michael_Gates
At Codename One we used NoSQL initially because we built on App Engine back in the day & it didn't have any other option. We are now using SQL for new things but the benefits aren't limited to ACID.
Better query tools, easier deployments, tools etc. make SQL far easier to manage in a rapidly changing environment. It also scales well & we can always shard...
The thing is that moving from SQL to NoSQL is relatively easy but moving back to SQL is almost impossible because the data in NoSQL becomes a mess... So I always advocate starting with SQL.
Mar 10, 2017 · Shai Almog
Sorry to hear that. Did you use a desktop or mobile browser?
We use a tool called intercom which I'm personally very conflicted about, it has this problem for some people (for others the X on the top right just works fine). It's more annoying on mobile but there is no way to specifically tune this for those platforms.
OTOH it's really great as a support platform and when people have a question it's very effective. If they just fix the damn thing.
Mar 10, 2017 · Shai Almog
Scala was one of the languages I mentioned with Kotlin in the previous post and my answer will be similar to the one I gave to Jeffrey above but I'll elaborate a bit more.
We are all together in the JVM, it's live together die alone.
Languages that compile to JavaScript as a strategy don't fair well unless they do "just that" and nothing else (e.g. Typescript). Since Kotlin/Scala/Java all bring their own philosophy their process of compiling to JavaScript will remain as niche as Dart which Google has been hyping for years without much to show for it (as opposed to Go which has merit and took off).
We have a port of Codename One that runs on top of JavaScript thanks to the excellent TeaVM. It's great for our fans to target additional languages but I doubt anyone will look at that and signup just because of that without the native ports to push that.
Now the LLVM port is something I totally don't get. For server deployment the JVM is a huge advantage and works really well. For mobile (e.g. iOS) using LLVM makes no sense.
Go works well with LLVM because it was designed for it and the language is structured in a very specific way for that.
Mar 10, 2017 · Shai Almog
The last article in this series is available here: Java Full Stack - Building a Mobile Startup
Mar 10, 2017 · Shai Almog
The last article in this series is available here: Java Full Stack - Building a Mobile Startup
Mar 09, 2017 · Shai Almog
In the original article I mentioned JVM languages and specifically included Kotlin. I should have repeated that I use Java as a synonym to the JVM.
Codename One is more portable than that, languages that transpile to JavaScript have a long problematic history i.e. Dart, GWT etc.
It makes sense to compile Kotlin to Codename One which is something we hope to do and discussed on stackoverflow here.
Mar 08, 2017 · Shai Almog
It sounds to me like you like the idea but I miscommunicated it. The idea isn't to have you build frontend. You could but as you say that would probably not be the best use of your time...
The idea is that front end guys and server guys use similar tools. As a devops guy you can probably appreciate the pain of doing automated releases for the client guys with more consistency of process. Having the server and client team deliverables under a unified process is a huge benefit especially for those painful times when API's change and things become more fragile.
BTW the same is true in the inverse, I wouldn't expect a mobile guy to build a high scale backend deployment. But as a prototype or initial startup server you can probably get away with something like this.
Mar 08, 2017 · Prem Khatri
I think you need to try the newer generation of cross platform tools. E.g. Codename One, Ionic, React Native etc. The situation has changed drastically in the past few years.
Mar 07, 2017 · Shai Almog
Why?
Mar 07, 2017 · Shai Almog
I actually mostly agree with that basic premise and my original draft framed this slightly differently but I was afraid the ambiguity would make it less clear.
Developers should have focus and not try to be all over the place, there should be a separate mobile team and separate server team when possible. However, keeping the technologies and teams closer is a huge value even when you have a proper process in place.
Notice that I specifically avoided saying there should be one team but rather some unity within the stack and better team mobility.
Mar 07, 2017 · Shai Almog
Sorry. This gets really complicated as I need to allocate people to take over the various duties I have. This is also time constrained because we have a release of 3.7 that's already announced for May 9th and we still have a lot of ground to cover: https://github.com/codenameone/CodenameOne/milestone/9
We'll probably postpone the release as I don't see us making that date but we can't postpone it by much.
Mar 07, 2017 · Shai Almog
Sorry to hear about your app. I'm not a marketing guy but we can chat a bit about what people are doing wrong with their app on the 1 on 1.
I'm aiming for the bootcamp to start soon, there are a lot of logistics I need to arrange for this to happen. I don't have an exact date but I can tell you we'll open and close the registration next week. I need to know exactly how many students have signed up so I can allocate the exact amount of time for the bootcamp. I'll need extra time for the 1 on 1 sessions.
Mar 06, 2017 · Shai Almog
Great!
I don't have the details yet. Since I need to physically allocate many hours for this that will correspond to the number of availble spaces (and I want as many people as possible to join) the logistics of arranging this have been a bit of a nightmare. I'm shooting at opening registration next week but follow our blog at Codename One to get the exact last minute details.
Mar 02, 2017 · Shai Almog
Great!
Backend experience should be a great place to start if you know Java well moving to Codename One should be a breaze. I suggest getting a leg up and installing Codename One, going thru the tutorials that we already have an see if you like it. I'll post updates on the bootcamp release in our blog and possibly dzone as we get everything together. In the meantime this is a comprehensive list of Codename One tutorials.
Mar 02, 2017 · Shai Almog
About the native interfaces issue make sure you ask on stack overflow or the discussion group with the details and I'll try to help you out.
Mar 02, 2017 · Shai Almog
With the exception of obfuscated code (e.g. 3 line RSA in perl) unless it's a domain specific language you don't see that much of a difference. In fact there is this site called property cross which benchmarks cross platform framework features by building the same app using multiple technologies. The Codename One implementation (based on Java) is one of the smallest in the site in terms of LoC by a pretty big margin.
We let you write native OS code as part of Codename One but that's there mostly to call functionality that we didn't expose in the high level API.I think that with Java 8 we're in a pretty good position in terms of verbosity.
Mar 02, 2017 · Shai Almog
Thank you both!
The bootcamp will be over the internet and I'll try to set US friendly hours for the 1 on 1 sessions when applicable. Please keep an eye on our blog as space is limited because I have limited hours in the day ;-)
Mar 02, 2017 · Shai Almog
FYI the editor who edited the article after I wrote it changed the article title incorrectly, "Aiming" isn't correct. We are at "full stack java" today.
Jan 19, 2017 · Dan Newton
When you say production do you mean in-house or public? Do you have a link for that?
I'm asking because I haven't tried webstart since 1.5/6 days and it was a piece of shit at the time (to put it mildly). It had so many problems in mass market production that made it totally unusable and we had to abort on the product we launched with it. I hardly see anyone using it nowdays.
TeaVM is indeed complex to setup but it's easy to provision. Our solution hides all of the complexities and allows you to target native mobile (Android/iOS/Windows UWP), desktop (thru FX/Swing/javafxpackager) and web (thru TeaVM). Our solution is indeed complex as hell to build but pretty easy for our users... I'm not talking about the difficulty of building with TeaVM though, I'm talking provisioning which is something far more important because that's what basically lets you reach your audience.
Jan 17, 2017 · Dan Newton
Have you tried provisioning a JavaFX application in the real world?
Our tool (Codename One) supports both JavaFX provisioning (using javafxpackager) and cross compiling to JavaScript using TeaVM. Overall JavaScript is easier and more reliable by a huge margin. I'd love for JavaFX to pick up but I've been thru this story too many times both inside and outside of Sun.
Jan 17, 2017 · Dan Newton
Notice that in your technote there are fixes for AWT/Swing too. FX is in the same boat. Something Oracle/Sun committed to but doesn't care about.
I've said before that Oracle is unlikely to kill JavaFX, it's not in their DNA. Letting it wilt with the minimal amount of maintenence they can get away with is something they can do.
Dec 27, 2016 · Nicole Wolfe
To paraphrase that: 50M installs is nothing for a company like Samsung.
Most of them are TV's and Watches both of which have had limited app developer success. Every few years an analyst says Samsung will invest in Tizen to get more control than it has with Android but the fact of the matter is that Samsung builds devices for operators who don't give a damn about Tizen. Samsung literally gave developers money to build Tizen apps and didn't have many takers...
Nov 23, 2016 · Gokhan Camas
It's a shame you didn't include Codename One in the evaluation. It's more mature than all 3 alternatives (been around longer than Xamarin Forms although not longer than Xamarin). It produces smaller/more portable binaries/code sizes than all of the above.
See the property cross comparison where Codename One produces smaller binaries, smaller APK's/IPA's (sometimes by order of magnitude) and all with a single code base.
Nov 11, 2016 · Tim Spann
Read the rest of the thread. I didn't once say that this story represents all gender bias, just one story that highlights little things that make a difference. I've heard a lot of stories and most were far worse, this specific story was interesting to me as it is very actionable. As a boss I think it's important to stand with an employee (regardless of gender) and to me that was the big take away from that story.
Nov 11, 2016 · Tim Spann
Read my other answers. Not once in my thread did I claim to have conducted a double blind study, you are projecting a bias which I tried not to do... I told a story that actually focused on the right way in which the boss handled the situation.
Nov 10, 2016 · Tim Spann
I translated this from the original language, there was no ambiguity in the story. Some terms were used that aren't in themselves derogatory but culturally pretty clear.
Nov 10, 2016 · Tim Spann
Notice that she gave the presentation (not the boss) and that after the first question was to the boss and deferred to her the guy kept asking the boss.
Nov 10, 2016 · Tim Spann
A female friend and PM told me this story:
She was giving a presentation on a very technical detail to a room of clients with her boss by her side. After the presentation was over the customer came over shook her hand and thanked her saying: "that was a wonderful presentation, you were beautiful". Then proceeded to ask her boss some technical things about the presentation...
Her boss answered the obvious, I don't know Sagit is the expert and defered to her. She answered and the customer still kept asking the boss and getting deffered to Sagit over and over.
I'm sure the customer didn't think of himself as a misogonist, he was just oblivious and didn't think a woman would be technical enough. The boss did the right thing by putting him at his place and supporting his employee.
I can see how a person without the level of confidence I have (regardless of gender) will feel it slowly erode in the face of being trivialized.
Jul 01, 2016 · Shai Almog
I'd like to mention that after I posted this one of the comments in our blog mentioned project ACE which allows some form of native widget embedding in Cordova. This is something I read about but I'm unfamiliar with so I'd be interested to know how well that works and if use cases such as native google maps can be supported by it?
May 27, 2016 · Dave Fecak
While all the points have merit, the reason for the one sided discussion is simple: "Oracle is wrong".
Google did a clean room implementation which pretty much every software developer thinks is "legal" especially in the case of what we deem "open technology". Even Jonathan Schwartz agreed on that and to me once the CEO of the company you supposedly hurt at the "time of the offence" doesn't think you did something wrong...
May 27, 2016 · Shai Almog
You are the only person ever banned from our site is Felix Bembrick for reasons that are probably pretty obvious to anyone reading your comments.
The thing you fail to get is that this isn't harming us, it's only annoying. Somewhere at dzone a social intern sees this post and says... Wow it garnered a lot of social interest because it has over 15 comments... Let's retweet it... So you are effectively giving us free advertising.
The few people who do end up reading the comments see a guy using a fake name to troll. The moment you chose that route you lose any credibility and you also harm your cause as trollish behavior will be associated with JavaFX which you supposedly advocate.
May 23, 2016 · Shai Almog
Clearly you didn't read the article Felix. Notice I opened by saying how good Xamamrin is and didn't say we are better than Xamarin. Different.
Pretty much all the major pieces where we come up on top are irrelevant to FX.
Doesn't this bore you, how can you claim to not be a troll? Should I go and post nonsense on your posts?
May 23, 2016 · Shai Almog
If JavaFX on mobile is serious enough then why do you feal the need to create fake user aliases just to harras us instead of standing on your own merrit Felix?
May 17, 2016 · Shai Almog
BTW your name looked unique so I googled you as you have no post history. Are you the Alik Levin from Microsoft?
May 17, 2016 · Shai Almog
I think I clearly stated my bias.
Why isn't the comparison valid?
Because we're smaller, that makes no sense.
We address the same general problem in wildly different ways which I think is interesting.
FYI I wrote this because this is something people ask us a lot, I think it's fair to put it in a post so people can comment on it.
May 03, 2016 · mitchp
Thanks!
I sent you the article link by email but I'm guessing feedback is more of a public discussion subject (especially when talking transparncy). I'd love to see something like a git interface so I can track history of edits/review notes. Hell since this is a developer site why not just use git or even github and let us push stuff in. I'd also love for this to be visible to the community so they can look at the "firehose" side of submissions and the underlying process.
Using something like the merge reques process in github where I can just write a comment to the moderator if he doesn't respond in a week or so would be helpful. He can respond back with the things that I need to change within my pull request to resubmit. Seeing the changes as a set of changes would be great as they are often changed.
I like the visual editor aspect in the site but using something like asciidoc or markdown might be more convenient/powerful for you guys as you might be able to just use version control for all the data and have easier processing/design/standardization on everything. Since the target demographic is very technical, asking us to use asciidoc or markdown shouldn't be much of a problem.
May 03, 2016 · mitchp
I'd like to know that too. IMO this is one of the painful things in the current system as there is no "editor feedback" or transparency in the editorial process to MVB's. We need this feedback to improve and better match expectations.
I've had articles approved within days but I currently have a rather extensive article stuck since March 14th with no idea why it isn't moving anywhere. I'm guessing that the lesson here is to not submit anything moderately complex.
May 01, 2016 · John Vester
Shouldn't the title of your article be: "Java Annotations solidify the bad practice of DI"?
I don't like DI or inversion of control. I like control and explictness in programming so I totally agree. I think annotations can be useful but they are often used "badly" as a declerative programming language in it's own right which isn't truly type safe or debuggable.
Mar 12, 2016 · Duncan Brown
Forms is WORA in the sense that SWT is WORA. Not even AWT level of WORA.
It doesn't aim to be 100% portable and it doesn't aim to be seamless. That's not a bad thing but its nowhere close to what we do.
Mar 11, 2016 · Duncan Brown
That comparison also indicates that Xamarin is more of a porting framework than a write once run anywhere framework e.g. check out a discussion I had in the Xamarin forum regarding our original Xamarin vs. Codename One comparison:
https://forums.xamarin.com/discussion/55129/comparing-xamarin-to-other-cross-platfrom-frameworks-codename-one?
Mar 08, 2016 · Duncan Brown
Swing is a great example!
It had 30% of the market in its peek and that was at the time where Windows accounted for 97% of the desktops especially in corporate.
Its default UX sucked but some people showed how you can customize it very deeply to create very engaging UI's (e.g. JGoodies, Chet/Romain, Kirill etc.).
Mobile offers far greater rewards and challenges for portability especially for business oriented applications but also for many consumer UI's. If a UI framework addresses the inherent issues within Swing and doesn't try to be over ambitious then it makes more sense than native.
E.g. if you are a corporate manager you often don't use your in-house developers to build the mobile app. You outsource that work because of the huge challenges in doing this in-house. If you could use your corporate developers for building apps the paybacks would be huge.
Mar 07, 2016 · Duncan Brown
You should probably checkout Codename One (which is where I work btw) as it's far more WORA than anything mentioned here while still not being HTML based and still allowing full access to native.
I would phrase the question differently. Would you use a high level abstraction framework or go with a low level implementation. E.g. would you use Java EE/Play etc. or go directly to an apache server module in C. Modern industry has moved to the framework approach on the servers. Mobile will follow as the solutions mature.
Feb 27, 2016 · Shai Almog
Having built a lot of Tables with Swing in the past I'm not so sure it's more powerful. Things like Spanning aren't builtin and basic things like freeze columns are remarkably painful in Swing.
The renderer approach has two theoretical advantages:
1. Separation of concerns - from my experience this usually flies out the window the moment you need to do anything even moderately complex with a renderer. Adding the editor is something that confused even verteran software developers.
2. Performance - if you need a huge number of elements.
Generally a Codename One table should perform reasonably well for up to 5k lines, that isn't as much as Swing. But since our target is mobile and tablets this isn't a real problem, if you want to show that much data on mobile you need to stream it or make it searchable.
Feb 17, 2016 · John Esposito
Thanks. I'm a bit overworked at this point in time but I'll be sure to submit a proposal once I finish my current workload.
Feb 16, 2016 · John Esposito
Hi John,
I'd like to write a refcard for Codename One. However the guide link seems to lead nowhere and I'm not really sure where to begin (template etc.). How does that process work?
Is it open to 3rd parties?
Thanks.
Feb 15, 2016 · Edvin Syse
I like some of the concepts of javafxpackager but from our experience with it I was pretty disappointed by the implementation. Its pretty buggy and spartan.
It seems that with every release of Java a new team comes along and completely reinvents distribution (webstart rewrites, Java plugin, packager etc.). The problem is that all of these approaches are damn awful. E.g. fxpackager needs both a Mac and a Windows machine. Signing (which is required on Mac OS) is a HUGE pain.
So FXLauncher looks promissing but the underlying fxpackager is the true problem.
Feb 07, 2016 · Shai Almog
Yep.
I suggest you check out Codename One. On the desktop we build on top of Swing/FX but we also open up mobile which is pretty big in the enterprise space now.
Jan 08, 2016 · mitchp
My eldest daughter was sure I was a yoga instructor like her mother until the age of 3.
I do a lot of support for the Codename One community every day and I always ask her not to disturb me because I'm answering people right now (really breaks the concentration). Anyway, she decided that my job is "answeing people" and I think that's just great ;-)
Jan 03, 2016 · Shai Almog
Java is open source and under GPL+CPE and has been for quite a while. If google had copied code that would mean they violated an OSS license. This is something every OSS advocate would agree is a problem. Copyrights over source code are the very basis of open source especially GPL.
JavaScript is slower for heavy processing code even with V8 it can be really good for some things but horribly slow for others e.g. basic arithmatic since it lacks primitive types. V8 can only go so far and has quite a bit of an overhead in mobile. It can't be AOT translated like Java can and is with the ART runtime and since it isn't compiled can't truly be protected.
React native has its own issues and doesn't really provide an advantage over Java not in terms of concise code or any real world advantage.
Since the video isn't in a field I work in dedicating an hour to watch something isn't something I can afford (hell, didn't even have time to watch the new StarWars dammit). But feel free to link to the clifnotes.
Jan 03, 2016 · Shai Almog
I generally agree that the lawsuit was a stupid move but the people running Oracle aren't stupid (wrong != stupid). They just have a very different view of thing from the hacker community, having worked there I "get them" even though I disagree with them.
Oracle at the time was coming off some very successfull lawsuits against SAP etc. for license violations. At Sun the thought has always been that Google copied code which is something I think everyone would agree is a violation that they should have been sued over. So Oracle came to the decision to sue thinking it will turn out like the successful Sun vs. MS lawsuit (in terms of public perception) and similar to the SAP lawsuit (in terms of payback).
Turns out they were wrong about the code copying (just one small method) but the problem is that once you start the lawyers they don't release their jaws. Its really hard to climb down a tree at this point... I think that had they predicted these things in advance they wouldn't have entered the lawsuit since it undoubtedly cost them a lot of business and goodwill.
About JavaScript, even its biggest fans admit that its a domain language that can't replace Java in many of its use cases. It works well for web related work but doing large complex algorithms or server flows is much harder. Since it isn't a compiled language its hardly a replacement for Java.
Tools like PhoneGap allow you to package JavaScript apps today to run on iOS & Android and despite the fact that they allow a form of WORA everyone does native, so Google picking JavaScript would be a step backwards. Notice that Apple just switched languages and chose to make a brand new language rather than use its reasonably powerful JavaScript engine...
Jan 01, 2016 · Daniel Stori
;-)
I would use the analogy of a cleaning person picking up the garbage. So he first comes along to check if the garbage is used by anyone and places a yellow sticker on everything that's used. Then he indiscriminately throws away everything that doesn't have a yellow sticker on it.
GC's are actually remarkably simple, its the implementation that gets a bit tricky specifically in regards to threads...
Jan 01, 2016 · Shai Almog
Thanks!
That means a lot especially with the comparison to the MS case paragraph.
Dec 31, 2015 · Shai Almog
I have no idea since I have no insider knowledge. But developers built iOS apps on the ancient creaking piece of *** that is Objective-C. Before ARC you had to write reference counting code which was pretty horrible... Yet people went thru it in droves.
There was motivation to modernize and introduce swift, no doubt... But ultimately the selling point for the platform is traction & monetization above all. Everything else is sugar coating.
The same principal holds for Android. In the flow chart that sits in the head of an executive who makes decisions of this type, this would probably count pretty low.
They could also always standardize on something like Scala, Kotlin, Dart or something else if the language features was a major issue. Buying typesafe/jetbrains is peanuts for them.
But again, I'm just guessing ;-)
Dec 31, 2015 · Shai Almog
That's indeed a point I should have addressed.
I'm sure upgrading to a more modern runtime has been on their minds. Although the need to update ART for Java 8 would be pretty expensive too. However, as Android is probably the most popular Java platform by a huge margin without Java 8 I'm not sure if that is enough of an incentive to do something like this alone.
Dec 30, 2015 · Shai Almog
I'd say WINE, Linux, AMD, PC BIOS are all great examples of clean room implementations based on API's and documented standards.
Oracle has protection. Google couldn't call what they did Java and avoided that, trademark law still applied.
Dec 24, 2015 · Shai Almog
Currently this won't work without a Mac and on our build servers we use Macs to be 100% compliant with Apples requirements.
However, if you are the adventerous type there are some 3rd party toolchains that support building iOS apps without a Mac and might work for you. I wouldn't bet my company on that but as a hobbiest OSS project that could be interesting.
Dec 24, 2015 · Shai Almog
Its actually going directly to C which is much faster than Objective-C. Objective-C is pretty slow with its message (sort of "method") dispatch. Xamarin is actually pretty performant but going directly to native poses risks to future changes made by Apple.
E.g. Apple is now moving the entire community to bitcode, a move that ParparVM can go thru with no real source changes. That's pretty cool.
Dec 12, 2015 · Matthew Casperson
One small correction: Its never a $64,000 question for developers. Its a $65,536 question...
Accuracy is important ;-)
Dec 02, 2015 · James Sugrue
I totally agree. The Android emulator (not simulator) is horrible.
Did you hear about our new Cordova support for Codename One?
Its similar to PhoneGap build in some regards but goes the extra mile. If you use that you won't need to use the Android emulator, xcode or any other such tool.
Nov 27, 2015 · Shai Almog
Did you check out Codename One?
It can do all of the above but is mostly "mobile first".
Nov 26, 2015 · James Sugrue
Codename One is missing.
The problem with lists like this is that these platforms have almost nothing in common.
I'd split such a list into completely different categories e.g.:
Web based solutions, native, WORA etc.
Nov 25, 2015 · Shai Almog
Lack of Swing traction is totally Sun. It started when we were working there and it was pretty obvious how the Swing teams got pillaged for all the good engineers.
Oracle killed JavaFX Script which was going nowhere and did the Java based FX which most of the JavaFX community agree was a smart move (I concurr).
I really loved Sun and Oracle is a company that's hard to love (lawsuits and firing don't foster that) but it has been a better stuard in some regards than Sun. It is more organized and methodological.
I do think FX was never a huge priority for Sun and was even lower priorty for Oracle so everything is possible.
I agree that JavaEE will outlast COBOL, but I don't want it to be like that. I want us to still choose Java for the cool new startups and not just for the job security.
Nov 25, 2015 · Shai Almog
No. I think you missed the 3rd paragraph:
"Note: If you are a fan of JavaScript/NodeJS or any other such scripting language then you are not the intended audience for this post. This post is for people who love working with Java and want it to move forward."
And if you missed that then maybe you missed the points I made on why I think HTML based solutions are problematic for Java in the long term.
Nov 25, 2015 · Shai Almog
I do agree that todays JavaScript is far more powerful than 4-5 years ago.
There is the NASA app shown at JavaOne every year which is probably one of the best JavaFX demos out there (also a netbeans platform app). It shows pretty amazing data cross section meshed with real 3d satellite views. Pretty cool trajectories and everything...
Generally a good programmer can build an app in JavaScript or in Java which is best is highly debatable. Based on the popularity of this article I think that a lot of developers still want to have Java on the desktop and find it simpler.
Nov 25, 2015 · Shai Almog
Did you read the article?
The article advocates having a desktop API that actually gains traction or fixing JavaFX. It argues that we are better off deprecating JavaFX and making room to something new if Oracle won't invest in it (which apparently it won't).
FYI at Codename One we do mobile enterprise and banks etc. are moving in droves to tablets. There are things that are harder to represent on Tablets than on desktops but their rise in the enterprise is astounding.
Nov 24, 2015 · Shai Almog
I was a team OS/2 member ;-)
That's the thing, Linux is great and I've been using it since 94. But we're hackers... On the desktop it was never able to pick up although a lot of the progress it made was thanks to corporate backing. I spent quite a bit of time with the guys at Sun who did stuff like accessibility work for Gnome etc.
These are the sort of "unsexy" tasks that you need for true consumer product traction.
Notice that the big leap Linux was able to make into consumers was thru Android. With a corporate backed UI.
I think UI is something that tends to work less in a pure open source environment, you need some corporate guidance and process.
Nov 23, 2015 · Shai Almog
So you'd have 3 languages instead of 1 (javascript + HTML + Java). That's inherently more complex and requires tiering the various pieces of code.
Personally if I was going this route, I'd skip Java and do everything in JavaScript. I don't like that language but if I have to use it anyway I'd rather not go back and forth. That's what most companies doing web UI's are doing today and that's what I discuss in the article (e.g. the rise of NodeJS correlates exactly to that).
Nov 23, 2015 · Shai Almog
Did you compare office to office on the web?
The web version would generally be much harder to build than a Java version in some aspects and the performance is nowhere near the same especially with larger files.
Some usages lend themselves more to desktop programming, web isn't as easy to manipulate from Java as Swing/FX were.
Lets look at the apps I have open right now: 2 IDE's, browser, command line, process manager and VNC and media player.
Could you rewrite some of them in web technologies... Maybe. With a desktop API? Sure.
Each technology has its place just like on mobile, there is room for web and native programming and some overlap between the two.
Nov 23, 2015 · Shai Almog
I generally agree with that (which is why I mentioned TeaVM that we do use), but I think we still need a decent desktop API that's moderately competitive.
E.g. while HTML has moved along nicely rewriting an IDE in the scale of NetBeans/IDEA is still a bit off (althogh there are some nice web IDE's they are still quite far from that).
Having said that one of our fallback strategies is to use our TeaVM based port of Codename One for future development.
Nov 23, 2015 · Shai Almog
As a guy in the mobile space point b isn't accurate.
The main issue with getting a VM on the device is self modifying code from an untrusted 3rd party and that's a big problem in terms of on-device security.
Add to that the fact that FX or JavaSE weren't designed for mobile devices and you end up with something that's really impractical (see my reply to David above).
About your original point of open source, while that is technically true its a bit hard to complete in this field without a major corporation. E.g. Open source Linux distros have tried for years to compete with Apple and Windows in terms of UX and failed miserably. JavaFX is a huge piece of code that requires deep GPU experties to deal with, hackers do make meaningful contributions but its rare, slow and usually happens on its own. Sometimes it just falls apart (e.g. GIMP rising up only to effectively stand in place since). I worked on quite a few open source projects including one of the most successful open source projects from Sun in the mobile space (and Codename One is OSS). So I might be unduly pessimistic here but I think people sometimes overstate the power of the open source community.
Nov 23, 2015 · Shai Almog
Thanks ;-)
Nov 23, 2015 · Shai Almog
My sentiment exactly!
Nov 23, 2015 · Shai Almog
I neglected to mention Vaadin in the GWT section. I should have mentioned it there but because I glossed over the whole HTML5 thing I just didn't give it too much thought.
I don't have much experience with it but I did read the book of Vaadin and it made a very entertaining flight back home from JavaOne a few years ago.
Nov 23, 2015 · Shai Almog
Yep.
JavaFX is effectively flawed on mobile and Gluon is in that sense very similar to snake oil salesmen who tarnish our entire field of cross platform development/Java.
I can go into the technical details but generally think of three basic problems that are immensely hard/impossible to fix:
Sub pixel anti-aliasing (with screen rotation and non-standard pixel layouts).
Peer component integration (for web support and even basic text input).
Networking on iOS requires usage of the Objective-C layer to use device radio. The objective-c layer is incompatible with Socket (on which URL is based). So its effectively impossible to build portable code in that way.
That's just basic stuff I know from our work, JavaFX is HUGE and depends on the even bigger JavaSE. There is no way in hell a startup company can properly test something as elaborate as that into production.
Oracle implemented JavaFX for mobile and had a working proof of concept, there are VERY good reasons they chose not to release this as a product. Saying that they are a bureaucracy or make bad decisions faults their decision making process. Its pretty hard in an organization as big as Oracle to leave a field for a competitor (Google) without entering it. Its not the legal issue either since Oracle has a lot of Android apps and MAF runs on Android.
Nov 23, 2015 · Shai Almog
Going to mobile is a separate subject, check out Codename One which supports Java 8 on iOS/Android.
Nov 20, 2015 · mitchp
Thanks that's helpful.
Initially I thought about having a "note to moderator" section but you do have a good point. If the moderator thinks its an ad so would a reader.
Nov 17, 2015 · mitchp
Thanks, that's very important!
Can you go into details about commercial content or maybe notes to moderators?
Our company is an open source company that also sells a service (Codename One) unfortunately this sometimes creates confusion where moderators assume I'm promoting the commercial offering of the company as opposed to promoting the open source project (I'm guessing its both to some degree as is always the case).
How can I walk this fine line during submission both for the moderators and the readers?
Nov 09, 2015 · John Vester
Splitting because of character limits...
There is a reason for that, anyone who looks at JavaFX knows Oracle isn't committed to it. They made no effort to release it to mobile instead focusing on MAF.
The so called "mobile efforts" are just a bunch of guys who clearly don't understand the complexities at hand. JavaFX is HUGE and maintaining a huge/remarkably complex project on mobile is ridiculos. Sun took ages to fix sub pixel anti-aliasing in Swing, imagine doing that in a device that can rotate. Oracle with all its resources evaluated that and decided that doesn't make sense to do this.
Nov 09, 2015 · John Vester
I don't see how someone can say "JavaFX adoption is stronger than before"?
All the top JavaFX guys from Oracle moved to other projects (IoT mostly) and quite a few of them got fired (evangalists, the enitire Israeli team etc.). Despite years of work JavaFX is still in horrible broken shape even on the desktop, e.g. the so called "webkit" browser it ships is remarkably broken, their media playback API's don't support https (seriously) and their graphics canvas API lags a lot behind the scene graph API.
Oct 10, 2015 · Dave Fecak
As a guy who worked at Sun for many years and was there during/after the takeover. I can't begin to describe the extent of difference between Oracle & Sun cultures. They are polar opposites.
Sun in its later years was so hobbled by losses it just barely functioned, which is a huge shame. A lot of the problems we see today in Java are still basically stuff that Sun triggered. Oracle didn't swallow enough Sun DNA to form proper community relations though, they are still very much a top-down organization which makes it very hard to both innovate and form relationships.
Jul 01, 2015 · Tony Thomas
You should note in the article that this process is illegal and violates Apple's ToS. I doubt this will ever reach a court case or even trigger banning but Apple doesn't allow Mac OS virtualization unless it is done on a physical Mac machine.
So this process might be reasonable for a hobbyist but its not something you should be doing if you work for a major company.
At Codename One we use Mac's that we host in the cloud for our service and will soon also offer support to automatically generate the certificates for them. We also use them for the xcode build process so the full package can be maintained and still be 100% legal.
Jul 01, 2015 · Peter Soloninka
You should note in the article that this process is illegal and violates Apple's ToS. I doubt this will ever reach a court case or even trigger banning but Apple doesn't allow Mac OS virtualization unless it is done on a physical Mac machine.
So this process might be reasonable for a hobbyist but its not something you should be doing if you work for a major company.
At Codename One we use Mac's that we host in the cloud for our service and will soon also offer support to automatically generate the certificates for them. We also use them for the xcode build process so the full package can be maintained and still be 100% legal.
Mar 31, 2015 · John Walter
C# is not the best for cross platform and reusing 75% isn't much. It should be 100% or none at all.
C# is an alien language to both Android and iOS and native only for Windows Phone which is a negligible platform for the forseeable future (even MS tablets aren't selling as well as they should).
Java is far superior for mobile since it has some truly cross platform implementations. Its native to Android and because of that the recent Android Runtime (ART) improvements automatically apply to it. Since C# compiles to native code all GUI apps that aren't games need to callback into the Java code (since the Android UI is written in Java) making it slower than Java.
Oct 27, 2014 · John Walter
Fat client usually referred to doing SQL remotely into the server from the UI so mobiles probably aren't doing that.
They are and should be fatter than a web application and should replicate server code so they can properly work offline. Otherwise they are just no better than a web app case in point the 1 star on the Facebook "native app" which does just that. This is doubly true for business apps where instant response is crucial.
Sep 22, 2014 · James Sugrue
I was there too, great session and great conference!
I had a few different things I liked about his talk, first was that he brought his wife and somewhat bored teenage daughter. I pictured my own family in my lectures getting bored from my talks and found it immensely amusing.
The second thing was hist Q&A section, he told the story about waiting for questions in Norway. The next day I used that in my workshop and it worked!
That was cool.
Sep 15, 2014 · Shai Almog
Sep 09, 2014 · James Sugrue
I'm sorry I miscommunicated.
I didn't mean monster as a derogatory phrase at all! Its a project that more than 100 developers worked on for quite a few years and includes its own webkit implementation and a load of other things!
I highly respect a lot of the engineers that worked on it and think they did a splendid job in many regards.
Monster == very large and very powerful
I'm well aware of the efforts by Niklas et al. on RoboVM (the comment you refer to wasn't made by me) the problem is that the iOS work seems to be (IMO rightly so) focused on the LibGDX iOS port rather than on the FX port. This actually backs my original assertion, why not back something smaller and nimbler than FX?
You can argue that you don't need 100 full time engineers to maintain something built by 100 full time engineers but since the work on JavaFX on the desktop is still very far from completion (another example that just pops to head, streaming media over HTTPS) I don't see how a mobile version can be maintained without the resources of Oracle. Its just too big.
Anyway we will be presenting Codename One in our booth at Java One so drop by for a chat, I'm sure it will be interesting.
Sep 09, 2014 · James Sugrue
I'm sorry I miscommunicated.
I didn't mean monster as a derogatory phrase at all! Its a project that more than 100 developers worked on for quite a few years and includes its own webkit implementation and a load of other things!
I highly respect a lot of the engineers that worked on it and think they did a splendid job in many regards.
Monster == very large and very powerful
I'm well aware of the efforts by Niklas et al. on RoboVM (the comment you refer to wasn't made by me) the problem is that the iOS work seems to be (IMO rightly so) focused on the LibGDX iOS port rather than on the FX port. This actually backs my original assertion, why not back something smaller and nimbler than FX?
You can argue that you don't need 100 full time engineers to maintain something built by 100 full time engineers but since the work on JavaFX on the desktop is still very far from completion (another example that just pops to head, streaming media over HTTPS) I don't see how a mobile version can be maintained without the resources of Oracle. Its just too big.
Anyway we will be presenting Codename One in our booth at Java One so drop by for a chat, I'm sure it will be interesting.
Sep 08, 2014 · James Sugrue
Disclaimer: I'm quite a bit biased here since I co-founded a project that allows Java developers to build apps for mobile devices that doesn't use JavaFX so hopefully this won't be perceived as flame bait as much as an honest question.
My question is: Why the effort?
JavaFX is a VERY sophisticated and elaborate piece of software that is incomplete even on the desktop (e.g. web view, perspective transform, canvas etc. are very problematic for us on the desktop). I can only imagine the problems/gaping holes and performance issues in the Android/iOS efforts. Even Oracle isn't really investing in moving their apps to JavaFX and has abandoned any attempt to move it to mobile (arguably they have some effort on embedded but even that is pretty weak relatively).
After Sun/Oracle essentially abandoned all of us Swing developers with huge gaping bugs (e.g. file chooser not working on Windows 7 for years) why put any effort on JavaFX?
Which enterprise would ever use FX on mobile without the backing of Oracle?
Even if a commercial company promises support this would be dubious at best, the code base and functionality are just too big to properly support without major resources.
Aug 01, 2014 · Alec Noller
There is a 3.5 option. Not entirely native but a more Java-WORA approach while still generating what is effectively a mobile app that doesn't suffer from the drawbacks of phonegap.
At Codename One this is the approach we take for Java, in the past Adobe made some work in that direction with Air and Corona is making some work in that direction on top of Lua.
Jul 05, 2014 · James Sugrue
Thanks for including our talk in the list!
We also have a booth in JavaOne which pretty much means we have a couple of extra tickets to spare and we are giving them away.
Jun 19, 2014 · Mr B Loid
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Mr B Loid
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Mr B Loid
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Mr B Loid
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Mr B Loid
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Mr B Loid
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Mr B Loid
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Alec Noller
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Alec Noller
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Alec Noller
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Alec Noller
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Alec Noller
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Alec Noller
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Alec Noller
I didn't hide behind a fake name like some people do, I clearly state my bias and yes I provided a link. I dislike it when companies present their product as a solution that's new when its pretty far from that, especially when their product is snake oil. In this case its the cloud build aspect, this puts a bad spin on the whole industry and hurts us all.
So when someone puts out a product/announcement in our field that I feel is wrong and misleading should I ignore it? Use a fake name? Hide my bias? Praise them?
I tried to be polite rather than downright disparaging and the best I could come up with was passive aggressive. Feel free to suggest some other way I could phrase my point more clearly.
Jun 19, 2014 · Mr B Loid
That's not very different from Appcelerator which pretty much means it suffers from the exact same problems, notice that they don't offer cloud builds... Remote compilation can't work for cases like this since the difference between the platforms is too great e.g. order of event delivery, basic UI construct behavior/availability etc.
So in that case you need a REALLY powerful debugger architecture to debug on the device hence remote compilation makes no sense. You guys have a lot of HTML experience, native is different. That's why we took a different approach with Codename One, but good luck with that anyway.
Jun 19, 2014 · Alec Noller
That's not very different from Appcelerator which pretty much means it suffers from the exact same problems, notice that they don't offer cloud builds... Remote compilation can't work for cases like this since the difference between the platforms is too great e.g. order of event delivery, basic UI construct behavior/availability etc.
So in that case you need a REALLY powerful debugger architecture to debug on the device hence remote compilation makes no sense. You guys have a lot of HTML experience, native is different. That's why we took a different approach with Codename One, but good luck with that anyway.
Jun 13, 2014 · Alec Noller
You failed to mention Codename One which doesn't quite fit any of the categories you mentioned but being completely based on Java is probably more relevant to the java dzone readership than all of the tools mentioned in the report.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
We just stayed with the existing SVN for now, its both history and workspace design choices that make sense in an SVN deployment that are a problem.
I'm sure we can restructure the project in some way to fit git/github but we decided its not worth our hassle. E.g. our chief codebase: http://code.google.com/p/codenameone
Is currently over 7.5gb. Yes that includes some binary files but we need to host them somewhere so this saves us a great deal of hassle.
Its also remarkably difficult/impossible to delete history from SVN so the process of removing history we don't need (e.g. for the binary files) is problematic.
We're currently sticking to something that works until Google kills Google code (which I presume they will). Then we will probably be forced to migrate, hopefully by then Github would support multi-gigabyte repositories and we would be able to take the lazy approach.
Feb 16, 2014 · Tim Im
Unfortunately this only works for small projects.
We have quite a few large SVN repositories and once you cross the 1gb threshold github blocks your project. You need to start splitting up everything to smaller workspaces and that is a HUGE pain to do while maintaining the project history.
Feb 16, 2014 · James Sugrue
Unfortunately this only works for small projects.
We have quite a few large SVN repositories and once you cross the 1gb threshold github blocks your project. You need to start splitting up everything to smaller workspaces and that is a HUGE pain to do while maintaining the project history.
Jan 24, 2014 · Mr B Loid
With your Java programming experience may I recommend Codename One for your next experiment?
(disclaimer: I'm the co-founder of Codename One)
Jan 24, 2014 · Alec Noller
With your Java programming experience may I recommend Codename One for your next experiment?
(disclaimer: I'm the co-founder of Codename One)
Oct 30, 2013 · Tony Thomas
Its the small things, being able to disable all breakpoints with one click (REALLY useful) better preview of variables in the debugger, hit count for breakpoints (HUGE) and being able to jump to the type of a specific variable!
Small things like that really make a huge difference in the day to day development.
Oct 30, 2013 · Geertjan Wielenga
Its the small things, being able to disable all breakpoints with one click (REALLY useful) better preview of variables in the debugger, hit count for breakpoints (HUGE) and being able to jump to the type of a specific variable!
Small things like that really make a huge difference in the day to day development.
Jul 05, 2013 · jexenberger
Why didn't you mention Codename One ? (disclaimer: I'm one of the developers).
Its pretty different from everyone else you mentioned and far more complete than most.
Jul 05, 2013 · Allen Coin
Why didn't you mention Codename One ? (disclaimer: I'm one of the developers).
Its pretty different from everyone else you mentioned and far more complete than most.
May 03, 2013 · Mr B Loid
You should check out Codename One, our simulator is even better than Apples. We wrote our fair share of those in our days at Sun (WTK, SWTK etc.) so we know our stuff there.
May 03, 2013 · James Sugrue
You should check out Codename One, our simulator is even better than Apples. We wrote our fair share of those in our days at Sun (WTK, SWTK etc.) so we know our stuff there.
Oct 23, 2012 · Eric Gregory
Another HTML5 solution, how is this different from PhoneGap's build server?
Codename One is a better solution in this regard since it provides an actual enclosed environment rather than a thin HTML wrapper and "yet another IDE".
Jul 27, 2012 · John Esposito
If I understand correctly Tabris is a "runner" platform/server based container solution.
While it might be fine for some it is NOT like Codename One which is a true native mobile platform that generates a standalone native application that's unique, royalty free and allows invoking native device code (objective-c, dalvik etc.).
Jul 27, 2012 · John Esposito
If I understand correctly Tabris is a "runner" platform/server based container solution.
While it might be fine for some it is NOT like Codename One which is a true native mobile platform that generates a standalone native application that's unique, royalty free and allows invoking native device code (objective-c, dalvik etc.).
Jul 07, 2012 · Will Soprano
Apr 11, 2012 · James Sugrue
I'm a founder of a framework not mentioned here and radically different in architecture than all of the above (am I a "snake oil salesman" if our product is free and open source?).
Our product offers a highest common denomintor approach for UI development (90% of the problems in such frameworks), since we use a lightweight Swing like architecture with full support for heavyweight native code embedding.
We worked on this framework for 5 years as part of Sun Microsystems and left when neither Sun or Oracle allowed us to ship ports for iPhone, Android & Windows Phone 7. So the framework is effectively remarkably feature complete and used by major development shops around the world and most major operators/manufacturers.
Telmap is a GPS application maker (recently bought by Intel) who based their entire solution around a relatively old version of our solution. They love the solution and claim to huge savings in manpower and no sacrifice in functionality.
Unlike others, since our framework is lightweight it is deeply customizable in a very cross platform way. You can still get native platform specific features and idioms by leveraging our API and visual tools. The savings in maintenance alone are stagering.
One of the biggest issues with such frameworks is that people see them strictly as a means to save and start cutting corners all around. The best solutions leveraging our framework have spent a great deal of money on QA, user support and UI design producing distinctive feels for all platforms. They used the savings to create better products overall.
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
Jan 13, 2012 · Mr B Loid
It looks really cool. I noticed on the website that Mac OS X Lion isn't supported yet, is there an ETA or workaround for that?
I'd like to try it out but I have Lion installed.
Jan 13, 2012 · Allan Gregersen
It looks really cool. I noticed on the website that Mac OS X Lion isn't supported yet, is there an ETA or workaround for that?
I'd like to try it out but I have Lion installed.
Nov 01, 2011 · mitchp
I can point you at quite a few projects that don't work properly on Java 6 but work perfectly fine in 1.4/1.5 JRE/JDK. While the VM is pretty compatible the libraries often break, especially Swing/AWT. Every version of Swing introduced serious incompatibilites to Swing, JavaWebStart and related technologies effectively breaking applications in production.
The cost of retrofiting and going through the extensive QA is quite big and in quite a few circumstances impossible. E.g. the 1.6.x JRE effectively broke JTable sorting functionlity on some native look and feels and there was no workaround other than using the cross platform PLAF (not a reasonable workaround). The focus behavior in Swing/AWT is a forward compatibility nightmare that a bank I worked with in the past struggled with for quite a while.
Sep 05, 2011 · Lars Vogel
Is this an official app?
It gave me multiple errors, wouldn't install on the SD and looks like a clone of an iPhone interface without the level of refinement you would get on an iPhone (running on NexusOne). Is this a web app?
Sep 05, 2011 · James Sugrue
Is this an official app?
It gave me multiple errors, wouldn't install on the SD and looks like a clone of an iPhone interface without the level of refinement you would get on an iPhone (running on NexusOne). Is this a web app?
Aug 27, 2011 · James Sugrue
I didn't follow Heroku in the past since it lacked Java support so this looks like an interesting and promissing approach. I looked through the site and this seems like a similar approach to Google App Engine in some regards but I would love to have a good comparison of the two.
As far as I can tell GAE uses a more J2EE standard approach for extreme scaling and data center agnostic provisioning while you guys take a lighter spring based approach.
Do you guys intend to make a scalability/statbility comparison to GAE?
What about tooling?
Googles plugin is pretty nice, I'm OK with GIT and the command prompt but my team mates aren't as happy with that.
Is it technically feasible to build code that is agnostic between Heroku/GAE/Standard Server so we can just move to a different host or even bring everything "in house" if future constraints require that?
Jun 24, 2011 · James Sugrue
Nov 19, 2010 · Mr B Loid
Its a common mistake to use the Android emulator. Unlike the iPhone/J2ME, Android has an "emulator" which runs the actual OS on an actual hardware stack which is why its so slow (you can disable the screen lock in the settings for the OS).
The solution is rather simple: get a device.
Running/debugging on the actual device with Android is faster than launching a J2ME simulator! You see all the printouts and exceptions in DDMS etc. That's one thing Google did really well.
If you must use the emulator remember you don't need to close it. You can just keep it running and the applications will load into it dynamically.
Nov 19, 2010 · mitchp
Its a common mistake to use the Android emulator. Unlike the iPhone/J2ME, Android has an "emulator" which runs the actual OS on an actual hardware stack which is why its so slow (you can disable the screen lock in the settings for the OS).
The solution is rather simple: get a device.
Running/debugging on the actual device with Android is faster than launching a J2ME simulator! You see all the printouts and exceptions in DDMS etc. That's one thing Google did really well.
If you must use the emulator remember you don't need to close it. You can just keep it running and the applications will load into it dynamically.
Sep 22, 2010 · Mr B Loid
Sep 22, 2010 · mitchp
Aug 13, 2010 · Tony Thomas
I'm not a fan of lawsuits but this has been brewing for 5 years so Google must have known. Oracle claims they actually copied Java source code and effectively relicensed it under an Apache license, that is a GPL violation and a fork.
I don't like the usage of the patent claims (personally very much against software patents) but if Google was negligent enough to use GPL licensed code and publish it as Apache licensed code they have only themselves to blame (I'm using a NexusOne myself so I seriously hope they come to an understanding and unify the Java brand rather than the current confusing mess).
Aug 13, 2010 · Tony Thomas
I'm not a fan of lawsuits but this has been brewing for 5 years so Google must have known. Oracle claims they actually copied Java source code and effectively relicensed it under an Apache license, that is a GPL violation and a fork.
I don't like the usage of the patent claims (personally very much against software patents) but if Google was negligent enough to use GPL licensed code and publish it as Apache licensed code they have only themselves to blame (I'm using a NexusOne myself so I seriously hope they come to an understanding and unify the Java brand rather than the current confusing mess).
Aug 13, 2010 · Tony Thomas
I'm not a fan of lawsuits but this has been brewing for 5 years so Google must have known. Oracle claims they actually copied Java source code and effectively relicensed it under an Apache license, that is a GPL violation and a fork.
I don't like the usage of the patent claims (personally very much against software patents) but if Google was negligent enough to use GPL licensed code and publish it as Apache licensed code they have only themselves to blame (I'm using a NexusOne myself so I seriously hope they come to an understanding and unify the Java brand rather than the current confusing mess).
Aug 13, 2010 · Rick Ross
I'm not a fan of lawsuits but this has been brewing for 5 years so Google must have known. Oracle claims they actually copied Java source code and effectively relicensed it under an Apache license, that is a GPL violation and a fork.
I don't like the usage of the patent claims (personally very much against software patents) but if Google was negligent enough to use GPL licensed code and publish it as Apache licensed code they have only themselves to blame (I'm using a NexusOne myself so I seriously hope they come to an understanding and unify the Java brand rather than the current confusing mess).
Aug 13, 2010 · Rick Ross
I'm not a fan of lawsuits but this has been brewing for 5 years so Google must have known. Oracle claims they actually copied Java source code and effectively relicensed it under an Apache license, that is a GPL violation and a fork.
I don't like the usage of the patent claims (personally very much against software patents) but if Google was negligent enough to use GPL licensed code and publish it as Apache licensed code they have only themselves to blame (I'm using a NexusOne myself so I seriously hope they come to an understanding and unify the Java brand rather than the current confusing mess).
Aug 13, 2010 · Rick Ross
I'm not a fan of lawsuits but this has been brewing for 5 years so Google must have known. Oracle claims they actually copied Java source code and effectively relicensed it under an Apache license, that is a GPL violation and a fork.
I don't like the usage of the patent claims (personally very much against software patents) but if Google was negligent enough to use GPL licensed code and publish it as Apache licensed code they have only themselves to blame (I'm using a NexusOne myself so I seriously hope they come to an understanding and unify the Java brand rather than the current confusing mess).
Jul 16, 2010 · Steven Sacks
I noticed the lack of mobile discussion except for a couple of Android related posts. I'm curious how the mobile crowd sees Java FX but I assume there aren't many mobile developers in the JavaLobby due to relatively low amounts of mobile content.
For that means I published an almost identical poll in my blog which attracts a good segment of the mobile Java developmnet community here: http://lwuit.blogspot.com/2010/07/how-can-oracle-make-javafx-more-popular.html
I'm curious if our results will be different due to the population segments.
Jul 09, 2010 · mitchp
Jul 10, 2009 · Mr B Loid
I bought it last year at the previous J1 and I can't say I'm happy with it.
The product has a "WOW" effect on everyone who sees it and my girlfriend used it extensively at first in her studies but its sort of useless to us since then.
The main problem isn't the pen but the bundled software which is one of the worst I have ever used, on the Mac it was completely useless to me since it won't run on Tiger (don't get me started on Apple). On the PC its give and take whether it will actually work and sync with your particular PC, one worked for me and I wasn't successful since. I heard someone was able to use it on VirtualBox but I wasn't able to do so.
The software often grabs 100% CPU and is lacking basic features such as backup or export to externally supported formats such as MP3/JPEG etc. You can "backup" to the web but thats not quite what we want for our private documents...
So we can't share private notes with friends without placing things on the internet (a big psycological barrier forsome people even if the sharing is limited). Its also very inconvenient to use the software to view existing notes, its just slow and unintuitive.
So while the piano demo is cool and the device is remarkably impressive, it is ruined for us by the desktop software.
Jul 10, 2009 · Burk Hufnagel
I bought it last year at the previous J1 and I can't say I'm happy with it.
The product has a "WOW" effect on everyone who sees it and my girlfriend used it extensively at first in her studies but its sort of useless to us since then.
The main problem isn't the pen but the bundled software which is one of the worst I have ever used, on the Mac it was completely useless to me since it won't run on Tiger (don't get me started on Apple). On the PC its give and take whether it will actually work and sync with your particular PC, one worked for me and I wasn't successful since. I heard someone was able to use it on VirtualBox but I wasn't able to do so.
The software often grabs 100% CPU and is lacking basic features such as backup or export to externally supported formats such as MP3/JPEG etc. You can "backup" to the web but thats not quite what we want for our private documents...
So we can't share private notes with friends without placing things on the internet (a big psycological barrier forsome people even if the sharing is limited). Its also very inconvenient to use the software to view existing notes, its just slow and unintuitive.
So while the piano demo is cool and the device is remarkably impressive, it is ruined for us by the desktop software.
Apr 08, 2009 · Mr B Loid
Its greate that Google did the "right thing" by supporting JSP/Servlets, JPA and GWT. It would make moving our code to the app engine so much easier!
Now we just need to find a proper CMS that works on the APP engine and start moving our entire infrastructure. Maybe Magnolia can be adpated for that environment...
Apr 08, 2009 · Ola Bini
Its greate that Google did the "right thing" by supporting JSP/Servlets, JPA and GWT. It would make moving our code to the app engine so much easier!
Now we just need to find a proper CMS that works on the APP engine and start moving our entire infrastructure. Maybe Magnolia can be adpated for that environment...
Jun 30, 2008 · Stacy Doss
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Stacy Doss
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Stacy Doss
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Stacy Doss
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Stacy Doss
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Stacy Doss
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Stacy Doss
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Stacy Doss
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Fabrizio Giudici
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Fabrizio Giudici
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Fabrizio Giudici
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Fabrizio Giudici
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Fabrizio Giudici
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Fabrizio Giudici
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Fabrizio Giudici
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Fabrizio Giudici
[quote]Huh. I don't remember hearing Steve badmouth 3G. The first generation of the iPhone didn't support it for reasons of cost and battery-life, but the new generation does, so if 3G is important to you then this is no longer an issue. [/quote]
Steve lied about 3G and battery life/form factor dismissing it as unecessary compared to Edge... He very specifically said that it wasn't important. This is obviously BS since this phone: http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/products/mobilephones/overview/w880i?cc=us&lc=en was available about a year before the iPhone and has 3G with video phone front camera not to mention the size of the old iPod nano...
[quote]Try laying out an interface using Interface Builder and writing your application using the APIs. [/quote]
Try LWUIT and pretty soon Matisse for it.
[quote]Or go to the Apple web site and watch the WWDC keynote where several iPhone applications were demoed.[/quote]
Saw every single one of them and haven't seen anything impressive. The 3D looks reasonable but not much better than JSR 184 (M3G) which we had for ages, since its a standard OpenGL ES 1.1 implementation thats hardly a big deal... Not even version 2.0 so no shaders or anything special...
[quote]Can you point to any applications on any other mobile platform that even come close?[/quote]
http://www.sumea.com/
http://www.superscape.com/
[quote]The iPhone SDK is a real platform, which comes much closer to developing a desktop applications than any other mobile platform currently available.[/quote]
It comes close to developing Mac applications which is a HUGE pain and requires a Mac (which sadly I own, its a terrible computer but I digress).
Its very easy to build an SDK for one platform with one phone that has one resolution and not too many features, push is apparently a modern concept for iPhone developers... The SDK is weighed down by limitations both in access and licensing making it the typical Apple encumbarence nightmare.
Java ME is far from a panacea, its got its huge list of problems both compared to Java SE and to the iPhone. But you can do with it pretty much every single thing you can do with the iPhone and more. You can even do with it most of the things you can do on Android.
So its not the best platform in terms of development ease, deployment, uniformity or quality... However unlike the iPhone, people actually have devices that really work with this.
Apple has had a history of being developer hostile, canceling support for API's and dumping platforms despite strong guarantees in the past to support them. Very strict unapologetic licensing, limitations and lawsuits. If you want to develop for these guys, then enjoy but there is no technical superiority in the iPhone when compared to Java ME.
Jun 30, 2008 · Stacy Doss
Its amazing to see an iPhone fanboy calling something obsolete... You guys are still stuck in 2G and you are calling everyone else obsolete ;-)
The funniest thing is how Steve himself derided the slow speed of the existing iPhone now that they have "finally" built a 3G device barely a year after badmouthing 3G. Can you point at a single iPhone SDK feature that is missing from MSA/Java ME?
Jun 30, 2008 · Fabrizio Giudici
Its amazing to see an iPhone fanboy calling something obsolete... You guys are still stuck in 2G and you are calling everyone else obsolete ;-)
The funniest thing is how Steve himself derided the slow speed of the existing iPhone now that they have "finally" built a 3G device barely a year after badmouthing 3G. Can you point at a single iPhone SDK feature that is missing from MSA/Java ME?
Apr 29, 2008 · admin
No mobility option?
Our session (TS-4921) will appeal to most cell developers and to Swing developers alike. Not objective here but I think this session will make huge waves, I can't talk much further about this though so you will have to be there ;-)
Apr 29, 2008 · Geertjan Wielenga
No mobility option?
Our session (TS-4921) will appeal to most cell developers and to Swing developers alike. Not objective here but I think this session will make huge waves, I can't talk much further about this though so you will have to be there ;-)